In Whom Do I Put My Trust? - Page 2

David Herman · 06-15-2006, 01:37 PM

Lonnie,

Your advice is good and timely; I feel refreshed!

Brother Whatley · 01-30-2007, 04:58 PM

I always wondered what chapter or page to place the Square & Compass in the Koran or other VSL aside from the Bible. Can someone help?

paskashis · 02-10-2007, 10:12 AM

In ONESELF

Jacky Roberts · 02-14-2007, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D. W. Brown

I have never been more torn with this question. If you read masonic material, at least later material, Freemasonry says it is not a religion but:

1. Why is there a Judeo Christian bible sitting on the alter in many lodges and why are we using it to take our obligations on?

2. Why have some "elders" referred to the "G" above the WM head as "God" and some "Geometry"?

3. Why is a belief in Deity a requirement, if this is not a religious organization?

Has anyone else not asked themselves the same questions?

If you don't believe in God, then taking the Oaths on a Bible is pretty meaningless, isn't it?

D. W. Brown · 02-15-2007, 03:13 PM

I think most people, as I did, go along with the Bible because they know no better. Heck I was unaware that was even going to happen until the exact moment came. In my mind, taking the oath on the Bible was more representative for me and not literal. Although, I would have preferred to have had "Andersons Constitution" sitting there instead.

Rampantbear · 01-08-2008, 12:58 PM

I am a Buddhist mason, and when I was going to take my obligation I was warmly surprised to find that my brothers had without asking me aquired a voulme of the wisdom of Buddha and provided it on the altar for me to take my obligation on. My Grand lodge even allowed me to say the holy book or sacred book. I love my brothers more for this as I am as far as I know the only non-Christian in my lodge. I have only grown more enthused for the brotherhood at every turn because of the actions of my bretheren.

Bear

GrayingChap · 01-15-2008, 05:35 PM

Dale,
My understanding is that the Book of Sacred Law is not always the Bible. In some jurisdictions it is the Koran, in others the sacred book of that nation/people or tribe. I believe it is appropriate for a candidate or a brother to request that their obligations be taken on the scriptures befitting that candidate. If there is a Bible on your lodge's altar, it is most likely there because you live in a place that is predominantly Judeo-Christian.
The "G" over the Oriental Chair is nowhere - to my awareness at least - ever definitively defined. We know that atheists are not allowed to petition a lodge so the G may allude to deity. However, I personally, would stand out for "Geometry". Bottom line is that not every detail needs definitive clarification. If our fraternity is focused on moral teaching through symbol - then perhaps Masonry is more like poetry that calls up something from deep in our beings rather than an answer solely for our minds to comprehend. There is always mystery in Symbol..."G" is a symbol and most likely not an Initial!
Belief in Deity calls me as a Mason to look beyond myself. Certainly none of us wields all the power and control over the universe. Belief in Deity therefore preserves Freemasonry from merely being another "do-good society" where we all pull ourselves up by the bootstraps. Freemasonry for me unites me with a band of brothers who even when we are in harmony are not completely able to alter and adjust the world in which we live. Strength is not found in numbers but in a common awareness of strength and our weakness. Our brotherhood binds us together in both success and failure - enabling each of us to be masters and servants in a world where both are needed.
Is any of this helpful? provocative?

Bill Peake

George the 3rd · 01-15-2008, 07:00 PM

"GOD" as the Grand (Great) Geometrician:

D. W. Brown · 01-15-2008, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrayingChap

I believe it is appropriate for a candidate or a brother to request that their obligations be taken on the scriptures befitting that candidate.

Could you accept a candidate taking the obligation on another type of document like, Anderson's Constitution or some other Masonic landmark?

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrayingChap

We know that atheists are not allowed to petition a lodge so the G may allude to deity.

From my observation, this is not entirely accurate, we know that atheist are bared from some jurisdictions, but not all. There are quite a few atheist out there that are Freemasons, just not in England or the U.S.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrayingChap

Belief in Deity therefore preserves Freemasonry from merely being another "do-good society" where we all pull ourselves up by the bootstraps.

I always thought of Freemasonry to be the ultimate "Do-Good Society" externally and the most Free internal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrayingChap

Is any of this helpful? provocative?

A little provocative but information exchange can never not be helpful.

..

grandsecretary · 01-16-2008, 07:51 AM

Please allow me to take a slightly different approach.

A) Prior to 1717, and afterwards in Ancient Lodges, all initiates took their oaths or obligations on The Constitutions of Masonrie, not the Holy Bible.

A hand written manuscript copy was used and after the ceremony of Fellow of the Craft the Initiate retained his copy of the manuscript Constitutions.

However, the Holy Bible was open on the table at the requisite biblical reference.

B) The questions: "Which "VSL" should be used today?", whether any book should be used, or how a book should be used?, are relatively recent ones.

Craft Masonic rituals as we know and use today, were written by Christian Masons. Even the Master Mason's degree written from scratch by Desaguliers in around 1720.

We ought not to forget that Freemasonry is a system of morality veiled in allegory. Just because a particular book is open in the Lodge, at a particular page, which includes a reference to the moral lesson included in a particular piece of Masonic ritual, does not render the reader a Catholic!

There is no reason why an initiate of any particular religion, should not read a book which contains moral references. The problem arises when he is required to place his hand on a particular Holy Book when taking his oath or obligation calling upon God as his witness.

To illustrate this, for those who have wondered why we are s..p s..d when we are initiated should read - Ruth Chapter 4. Each Craft ceremony contains similar, specific biblical references.

What is necessary is that the biblical reference is open in the Lodge at the correct reference point, and for the candidate to read. These references illustrate to any man the relevant moral lessons in the rituals. This is why the VSL being open in the Lodge is an Ancient Landmark and can only be the Judeo/Christian Bible. It is the point/book of reference. No other book will suffice as it will not contain the direct moral references, the only reason it is in the Lodge in the first place.

C) These are the questions that we must all face up to and not skirt around. We must be honest in this as in all things. So how do we, as Universal Freemasons, square this circle?

There is no reason to insist that an initiate must place his hand on a VSL, and how many Lodges do you know which open the VSL at the correct page of reference anyway?

Why not just require the initiate to place his hand on a copy of the Book of Constitutions in order to signify his acceptance of what it contains, as we used to?

Is there even a more radical option; a Masonic body to completely rewrite the Masonic rituals, excluding all religious or biblical references?

It seems to me that what we have at the moment is a halfway house, a mishmash, which has given rise to this very thread.

Is there a case for several types of Lodges? Strict observance Lodges; non-observance Lodges; Lodges which are denominationally based?

Whichever way we seek to solve these questions, the executive bodies of Freemasonry will have to meet together to discuss and resolve these important Masonic issues. Otherwise our serious considerations of these important matters remain academic and meaningless, and Freemasonry will continue to fragment.