In Whom Do I Put My Trust?

D. W. Brown · 04-25-2006, 02:23 PM

I have never been more torn with this question. If you read masonic material, at least later material, Freemasonry says it is not a religion but:

1. Why is there a Judeo Christian bible sitting on the alter in many lodges and why are we using it to take our obligations on?

2. Why have some "elders" referred to the "G" above the WM head as "God" and some "Geometry"?

3. Why is a belief in Deity a requirement, if this is not a religious organization?

Has anyone else not asked themselves the same questions?

Matt · 04-25-2006, 03:07 PM

I actually wondered the same questions when I took an interest in becoming a mason. Upon asking the same questions, these were the answers i received.

1. Why is there a Judeo Christian bible sitting on the alter in many lodges and why are we using it to take our obligations on?

From my understanding, based on the majority of the lodge's religious beliefs determines what actually sits on the alter. While the Bible may be on the alter in one lodge, the Quran may be in another.

2. Why have some "elders" referred to the "G" above the WM head as "God" and some "Geometry"?

From what I gathered, this is a minunderstanding. The "G" actually stands for "Geometry" however many take it or assume it as "God", which it in fact alludes to but doesn't stand for. I can't really think of an easy way to explain it at the moment, but the "G" represents geometry, which means a form created based on its elements, masonically meaning the universe (form) created by an element (a person's god or deity of choice). So while the "G" does in fact stand for "Geometry" it also does stand for "God", but it stands for each individual person's "God" (deity), not a certain named diety "God".... I think I just made this more confusing

3. Why is a belief in Deity a requirement, if this is not a religious organization?

I know exactly what you are saying, but this isn't a question, this is a debate. This can be argued so many ways. Based on understanding and interpretation alone, a diety is a belief in some defined force that controls an aspect of life or a world, while being religious is to love and respect a diety. I'll stop right there on this one because I know where it will lead. This is a good debate for a new thread though!

Matt

D. W. Brown · 04-25-2006, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt

1. Why is there a Judeo Christian bible sitting on the alter in many lodges and why are we using it to take our obligations on?

From my understanding, based on the majority of the lodge's religious beliefs determines what actually sits on the alter. While the Bible may be on the alter in one lodge, the Quran may be in another.

Which still raises the question, if Freemasonry is not a religion why do we have "any" item of a traditional religion there. Why not the Freemason constitution, as from my understanding, was done in the ancient times of freemasonry. Someone correct me if I have my facts skewed here.

Dawn Robel · 05-20-2006, 09:50 PM

I thought Freemasons did not believe in any one God/Deity?

D. W. Brown · 05-20-2006, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawn Robel

I thought Freemasons did not believe in any one God/Deity?

Well, on that topic you will strike a deep divide among many in the fraternity today. Albeit, I believe you are beginning to see the start of a second crusade of sorts to eradicate many of the unworthy, if I may be so bold, from the ranks.

In my opinion, I believe Freemasons should not even ask about a belief in deity or a “Supreme Architect of the Universe”. I believe that Freemasonry in its true form is tolerant of any belief and exist in one aspect for the enrichment of the mind. The thirst for knowledge is a strong aphrodisiac and I feel that there does lie the key to many of my questions in the ancient teachings of Freemasonry, especially in mathematics and the sciences.

AlabamaFreeMason · 05-28-2006, 09:23 AM

We as Free-Masons have no business asking what church you attend.

We have no business asking one about his religious belief. That is between the man and his creator.

We must have the required volume of the scared Law in our lodges to obligate candidates by. If we don't we should ask the candidate to bring his scared law with him or if he wants to be obligated upon the charges we should do so.

Alabama ritual along with many other jurisdictions has become Christian only in style and in many Alabama Lodges its fundamentalist Baptist.

Supreme being is the ONLY question that should be asked nothing further. The Master of the Lodge should privately ask the petitioner if he has a volume of scare Law that he prefers to be obligated upon he should be afforded the opportunity to do so.

I asked the GM of Alabama about the term we use "The Holy Bible" and what would be the correct thing to do if the person was Jewish, Muslim etc, etc. He stated"I don't know."

That is a major problem with the " antient" Lodges and jurisdiction they don't know anything except what they do use as ritual today which is totally based upon Christianity period.

So in Alabama if your Black and not Christian you don't fit in.

David Herman · 05-29-2006, 10:34 AM

1. Convenience. Most of the brethren probably don't even consider other holy writings as being holy. We have lodges in Atlanta where the Koran sits next to the Bible. GA code requires the Bible, but permits others as well. CA code requires lodges to have six (if memory serves) different scriptures available in case a brother requests one of them. Whichever volume is used, it is used to represent man's idea of God, even if that particular volume isn't the one each brother uses.

2. I prefer the explanation presented at http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/theletterG.html

3. Without a belief in Diety and a concept of spiritual accountability, of what use are the obligations?

D. W. Brown · 05-29-2006, 12:51 PM

I may get this way wrong as I'm not expert but I believe freemasons used to take the obligation on the masonic constitution or some other masonic document. Someone with more information help me out here.

Yagyu · 06-08-2006, 04:28 PM

The "Supreme Being" was a particularly interesting question for me, inasmuch as I am a Buddhist, and the Buddha was notably equivocal on the whole concept. When asked about the existence of a GAOTU, the Buddha inevitably replied something along the lines of "by the time you can understand the answer, you won't need to ask the question."

Nobody on the examining committee inquired as to my specific religion, and I took my oath on a Christian bible. I didn't mind too much because there really is no specific approved Buddhist Bible, and Zen Buddhists such as myself eschew all scripture anyway. I took it for what it is, a representation of the depth of my vow.

Lonnie · 06-15-2006, 12:57 PM

I thought the following may be of help...

******************

Book on the Altar

From - "Old Tiler Talks" by Carl H. Claudy

I HEARD the most curious tale," began the New Brother seating himself beside the Old Tiler during refreshment.

"Shoot!" commanded the Old Tiler.

"Friend of mine belongs to a midwest lodge. Seems they elected a chap to become a member but when he took the degree he stopped the work to ask for the Koran in place of the Bible on the Altar. Said he wanted the holy book of his faith, and the Bible wasn't it!"

"Yes, go on," prompted the Old Tiler. "What did they do?"

"The officers held a pow-wow and the Master finally decided that as the ritual demanded the 'Holy Bible, Square and Compasses' as furniture for the lodge, the applicant was wrong and that he'd have to use the Bible or not take his degree. And the funny part was that the initiate was satisfied and took his degree with the Bible on the Altar.

I'm glad they have him, and not this lodge."

Why?"

"Why, a chap who backs down that way can't have very much courage; I'd have had more respect for him if he'd insisted and if he couldn't have his way, refused to go on with the degree."

"All wrong, brother, all wrong!" commented the Old Tiler. "The Mohammedan initiate wasn't concerned about himself but about the lodge. He showed a high degree of Masonic principle in asking for his own holy book, and a great consideration for the lodge. This man isn't a Christian. He doesn't believe in Christ. He believes in Allah, and Mohammed his prophet. The Bible, to you a holy book, is to him no more than the Koran is to you. You wouldn't regard an obligation taken on a dictionary or a cookbook or a Koran as binding, in the same degree that you would one taken on the Bible.

"That's the way this chap felt. He wanted to take his obligation so that it would bind his conscience. The Master would not let him, because he slavishly followed the words of the ritual instead of the spirit of Masonry.

"Masonry does not limit an applicant to his choice of a name for a Supreme Being. I can believe in Allah, or Buddha, or Confucius, or Mithra, or Christ, or Siva, or Brahma, or Jehovah, and be a good Mason. If I believe in a Great Architect that is all Masonry demands; my brethren do not care what I name Him."

"Then think you this chap isn't really obligated? I must write my friend and warn him-"

"Softly, softly! Any man with enough reverence for Masonry, in advance of knowledge of it, to want his own holy book on which to take an obligation would feel himself morally obligated to keep his word, whether there was his, another's or no holy book at all, on the Altar. An oath is not really binding because of the book beneath your hand. It is the spirit with which you assume an obligation which makes it binding. The book is but a symbol that you make your promise in the presence of the God you revere. The cement of brotherly love which we spread is not material-the working tools of a Master Mason are not used upon stone but upon human hearts. Your brother did his best to conform to the spirit of our usages in asking for the book he had been taught to revere. Failing in that through no fault of his own, doubtless he took his obligation with a sincere belief in its sacredness. Legally he would not be considered to commit perjury if he asked for his own book and was forced to use another."

"What's the law got to do with it?"

"Just nothing at all, which is the point I make. In England and America, Canada and South America, Australia, and part of the Continent, the Bible is universally used. In Scottish Rite bodies you will find many holy books; but let me ask you this; when our ancient brethren met on hills and in valleys, long before Christ, did they use the New Testament on their altars? Of course not; there was none. You can say that they used the Old Testament and I can say they used a Talmud and someone else can say they used none at all, and all of us are as right as the other. But they used a reverence for sacred things.

"If you write your friend, you might tell him that the ritual which permits a man to name his God as he pleases, but demands that a book which reveres one particular God be used, is faulty. The ritual of Masonry is faulty; it was made by man. But the spirit of Masonry is divine; it comes from men's hearts. If obligation and books and names of the Deity are matters of the spirit, every condition is satisfied. If I were Master and an applicant demanded any one or any six books on which to lay his hand while he pledged himself to us, I'd get them if they were to be had, and I'd tell my lodge what a reverent Masonic spirit was in the man who asked."

"Seems to me you believe in a lot of funny things; how many gods do you believe in?"

"There is but one," was the Old Tiler's answer, "Call Him what you will. Let me repeat a little bit of verse for you:

'At the Meuzzin's call for prayer
The kneeling faithful thronged the square;
Amid a monastery's weeds,
An old Franciscan told his beads,
While on Pushkara's lofty height
A dark priest chanted Brahma's might,
While to the synagogue there came
A Jew, to praise Jehovah's Name.
The One Great God looked down and smiled
And counted each His loving child;
For Turk and Brahmin, monk and Jew
Had reached Him through the gods they knew.’

"If we reach Him in Masonry, it makes little difference by what sacred name we arrive," finished the Old Tiler, reverently.

"You've reached me, anyhow," said the New Brother, shaking hands as if he meant it.

http://www.calodges.org/no442/Old%20...rTalksMenu.htm