Ex-Masons For Jesus - Page 2

Jayman · 04-27-2008, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cemab4y

I think that EMFJ is the worst anti-masonic website on the net. Some, but not all of their leadership, are ex-masons.

I am sorry to hear about the incident where the Muslim was forced to obligate on the Bible. Most grand Lodges, have a requirement, that each new candidate will take the oath/obligation on the book of his individual faith.

I once assisted a Muslim (in Washington DC) to take the oath, on the Holy Qu'Ran. I consider this one of the high points of my entire Masonic life.

Here in Iraq, we will display the Holy Bible and the Holy Qu'Ran side by side on the altar.

I think any lodge that does not allow you to take the OB on anything other than your own VSL is a lodge you dont want to belong to

grandsecretary · 04-30-2008, 11:40 AM

So that we should understand, could a Muslim Brother please explain to us why a Muslim Brother could have a problem using the Old Testament in Lodge.

We use the Old Testament in our Lodge for specific reasons, and have not so far, experienced any problems, or received any objections in this respect.

Jayman · 04-30-2008, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grandsecretary

So that we should understand, could a Muslim Brother please explain to us why a Muslim Brother could have a problem using the Old Testament in Lodge.

We use the Old Testament in our Lodge for specific reasons, and have not so far, experienced any problems, or received any objections in this respect.

the same reason a Christian brother would have an issue using a Torah or Qu'ran as their VSL

What we call the "Old Testament" is a Christian VSL. No brother should have to OB on scripture that is not their own.

grandsecretary · 04-30-2008, 01:57 PM

Are you a Muslim yourself Jayman or is this from some experience or knowledge gained in your own Lodge? This may not be as clear cut an issue that it might at first appear?

This is what it says on the Aljazeerah Info Center:

" ... the Old Testament (the Torah) and the New Testament (the Engel) are Books of Islam, too. All messengers of God are considered Muslims, and we don't differentiate among them."

It goes on to say this:

"Islam started in the Middle East, where it was preached by Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammed."

... and so I really do not think that this is as obvious a situation as we might think. I would like to hear from our Muslim brothers if that is at all possible because from what our Muslims tell me, this may not be a problem at all.

Jayman · 04-30-2008, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grandsecretary

Are you a Muslim yourself Jayman or is this from some experience or knowledge gained in your own Lodge? This may not be as clear cut an issue that it might at first appear?

This is what it says on the Aljazeerah Info Center:

" ... the Old Testament (the Torah) and the New Testament (the Engel) are Books of Islam, too. All messengers of God are considered Muslims, and we don't differentiate among them."

It goes on to say this:

"Islam started in the Middle East, where it was preached by Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammed."

... and so I really do not think that this is as obvious a situation as we might think. I would like to hear from our Muslim brothers if that is at all possible because from what our Muslims tell me, this may not be a problem at all.

I know many Muslims.

tarant8l · 05-03-2008, 08:49 AM

What are the limits of Masonry?

D. W. Brown · 05-06-2008, 11:48 PM

Please elaborate on your question tarant8l.

Bogus83 · 06-11-2008, 01:42 PM

I actually found the page regarding the third degree as baptism to be pretty interesting. While not entirely accurate, it certainly is a creative interpretation of the symbolism contained.

http://www.emfj.org/dbr.htm

There is a fair amount of rambling libel towards the latter half, but the core points are at least worth a read.

Mxyzptlk · 08-08-2008, 09:52 PM

Quote:

I actually found the page regarding the third degree as baptism to be pretty interesting. While not entirely accurate, it certainly is a creative interpretation of the symbolism contained.

As I have told some of those at emfj and elsewhere, I do not agree with the baptism interpretation, mainly because there is no water involved. I find it hard to believe that a system as highly symbolic as Masonry would have set forth the allegory of the third degree as a symbolic baptism, while totally omitting (or missing) the symbolic significance of including water in it in some way.

As for the emfj guys, it's probably best to have as little to do with them as possible. I no longer post at their site, they are objectionable, and for people who claim to be Christians, they are downright mean. Especially to me, because I could see their inconsistencies and had a habit of pointing them out. That's a bit ironic for me to say that, since I became a Mason largely as a result of engaging them in debate.

chgregory · 08-09-2008, 05:09 AM

My Brothers,

The initial post talked about EMFJ as the worst Anti-mason site on the Web. That issue is an important one as they claim to be "reformed" mason who now believe in Jesus.

I spent about 5 minutes on the site, and frankly it is the usual Anti-masonic spew we see from a bunch of people who are either just plain stupid or hurt because we do not want them as members. I don't understand the Anti-masons. I don't want to give them my time and for the most part they use arguements that just don't match up with reality.

The book a mason chooses to use during his initiation, passing and raising is a somewhat personal issue. The idea of using different books is to allow the candidate to feel his obligation more personally, and that sounds like a fine idea to me. If he is attending a lodge where the members are not comfortable with him, he is in the wrong lodge.

We have to find the lodge where we fit. In my general area we have a very cosmopolital lodge, downtown Richmond, we have a very old lodge with lots of history and old members, we have an Orthodox Jewish lodge, a small country lodge, a rapidly growing, modern thinking lodge, we have a muslin lodge and a hindi lodge......in fact we have almost 20 here in the area I could drive to attend. We have every possible rite and every lodge, compainonship, orient, shrine or commandery has a different flavor to it. Some feel like home to me, so do not.

I have been in almost all of them over the past 5 years so I think I can say that, but that is one of the most important features of Freemasonry. It is a group with a common set of goals, but the path differes for all of us and we all are a part of the seasoning in our masons stew.

As a brotherhood, we have influence one on another. We are the lodge, and the lodge is made up of us as the building blocks.

I think that the real issue here is how rabid these anti-mason sites are, and trying to understand the venom they spalash around like holy water. My God is a just and caring god. My God is a forgiving and loving god. Worship God in your own way and if you feel your obligation is better given on one book over another, remember it is a book, a list of teaching and guidance, but a book copied by men, printed by men and in some cases wholey written by men.

The good is not in the choosen book it is in you. The book is meerly symbol of your good intentions, I have given an oath in my past on some unusual books, and I think that they are valid in the eyes of the lord as well as the eyes of men.

To me at least, the key is brotherly love, friendship and helping one another. Any group that picks on those virtues won't get much of my attention, so I think I am pretty much done talking about "Anti-masons" for this lovely Saturday morning.

Does anyone know if we get to go to Disneyland when we finish this journey. Likely not, the lines would be too long.

Happy day, my brothers.

S&F,