Is American Masonry blindly Patriotic?

paskashis · 02-10-2007, 10:22 AM

Are Amrican lodges forgetting the Universality of the Art and introducing pledges to the flag when Masonry should be an Universal Country?

D. W. Brown · 02-10-2007, 10:54 AM

Yes, the pledge is part of many lodges here in the U.S. opening and closing. I guess here I'm torn a little, I think schools should not remove the pledge from the classrooms but I can see the point for not having it in lodge. The thing that bothers me more is the fact that almost every time I hear the prayer during opening and closing, the terms "In Jesus name we pray" or referring to the Supreme Architect of the Universe by Judeo Christian terms, is used. I first thought this was just habbit but after mentioning it to some others and being warned about reprocussions from some elders if I made waves about it, I'm still undecided on how to handle it.

paskashis · 02-10-2007, 11:15 AM

Bro:. Brown

There're many things in the Lodge that are not withing the 'likes' of many of us. I was made a Mason and just a month afterwards I was already thinking in stepping out: why? Because it literally disgusts me the nationalistic approach of Masonry in the US. Out-of-the-lodge everyone should be free to determine his fate or creed but with-in the lodge Jesus and the American Flag are just terms of bigotry and anti-Masonic; this is not 'my' oppinion this is History's; if you go to the History of Freemasonry you shall see for yourself what I mean: American Masonry had done something that most of previous Masons would see as dangerous and anti-masonic, and this is so because Masonry is UNIVERSAL and not a localism; We are all ONE family under ONE mistery and flags and pledges are not part of it.
TAF

cyberclown · 02-11-2007, 09:56 AM

This is a very intriguing question, especially for me--considering the fact that I am a non-American (non-U.S. American) who recently joined an U.S. American lodge ...

First off, I do not feel offended/stepped on/ignored in regard to "we all meet on the level" when my U.S. citizen brethren are reciting the pledge at the opening of the lodge. I actually feel it rather as part of their commitment to being a law-abiding citizen as masons. Personally, I don't recite the pledge, of course, since my loyalty basically resides with my native land (Switzerland), but that, in return of course, does not mean that I ignore the laws of this land. I hope to be as law-abiding of U.S. law as my U.S. brethren are ...

But the original question also asks--in my view--whether "law-obedience" equals "blind trust" (?). ...
I cannot answer this aspect of the question objectively or universally. But I surely can see the possible dilemma between "obedience to the law" and defending "all being on the same level" ...
I would think the founding fathers of this nation felt the same dilemma! ... But it seems that they felt it more important to defend the equality of man than to "blindly" abide be laws perceived to be unjust. (But I fear that would go into the religion/taboo area ... and even though we are a discussion board, I still think equal rules may apply here as in a traditional brick-and-mortar lodge.)

Bro. Markus

BrAPeterson · 02-12-2007, 09:21 AM

Brethren,

While I understand the positions being made, one must remember that Masonry is a cross cut of society.

If you live in a predominantly Christian area, you will have Christian influence in your lodge (though I agree you shouldn't).

If you are an American, you will be saying the pledge.

Why? because at the time this custom was implemented there was great pride in being American in this country. We did not at that time have the scandals and controversy we have today (at least not publicly). At that time burning a flag was unheard of. It wasn't an issue of was it allowed, it was an issue of who would want to?

Why hasn't this change in attitude been reflected in the lodges? I believe it is because during the sixties, those who were interested in bringing change and voicing thier distrust of our government, were not interested in becoming Masons. Afterall, we were a reflection of the government "yes" man.

As Masons we should be good citizens and obey the Laws of our country, but above all else our own personal moral law.

Lastly, remember that Masonry is a democracy. If you don't like the way your particular lodge does something, recommend change.

If you are out voted, that is simply the joys and price of democracy at work.

Masonry is universal in its teachings, but the running of its lodges has always been local in nature.

Just my 2 cents.

Fraternally,

Bro. Arthur
New River Lodge #736

Restoair · 02-12-2007, 03:41 PM

The way i look at it that when most lodges were ganing strangth is when
WW11 had been won and the troops were coming home. These were men that were prowed of who they were and what they stood for. In turn they said the pledge to the flag, these are the same men that are the officers and past officers.

My lodge in Texas does the Texas pledge as well as the United States pledge.

If there is change to be made you need to understand why the thing that need chandge is being done in the first place.

All things change in time and as we get older ower views will decide the way things are run and if the fellings of ower governemt does not change then the pledge will be removed from the lodge in time. as will are views will be changed after we are gone.

So what I'm saying is talked with the brother as find out why we do what we do and see if there is a different way of doing things.

Brian
lodge 204
Salinas Ca.

cyberclown · 02-12-2007, 07:56 PM

Good points you make, Bro. Arthur.

Bro. Markus

paskashis · 02-14-2007, 05:28 PM

Dear Brothers,
I liked Bro:. Arthur reply. It seems fair. I am not a patriotic-like-figure, and one of the aspects I alwasy like in Masonry is that our world is the Universe, that's why I became a mason. I don't see a american more especial than an arab or vice versa, we are all coming from the Same Place and therein we shall be back. So, flags , pledges and creeds are to me like childish games--once raised, one is a resurrected Man, a different person, and one must struggle to remain as such. Yes In this state where I am most people are Christian, but I guess in US most people are Christian as well. I am not a Christian, in fact, I haven't any religion. I believe in a SUpreme Mystery, or Being, but I think That-one made us ALL and to each people gave a manner to address It and to understand HIM-HER-IT; that's why I don't believe either in episcopalism or catholism or any 'ism', I don't believe either in Masonryism. Tolerance is my flag and Love for my fellow-beings my Pledge. I try to sing that everyday...even though my voice is cracked...
TAF

D. W. Brown · 02-15-2007, 03:09 PM

Tolerance is my flag and Love for my fellow-beings my Pledge.

I like that comment, may have to keep that one in my pocket and use.

David Herman · 02-17-2007, 01:04 PM

I don't see what the difficulty is with the Pledge of Allegiance. If you are a citizen of the US, you should pledge your allegiance. This is done to the flag, to the country, to your fellow citizens, and to the government thereof; not to any particular political party, but to the system which allows for the free expression of differences.

As for prayer, it's a fact that many men are so unused to using universal terms (and perhaps taught that non-Christian is the same as anti-Christian) that certain denominational aspects slip in. I would say to you that, in most cases, this is a slip of the mind, and not of the heart; and I would encourage each of us to spread that broad mantle of Masonic Charity across our Brothers' shoulders at these occasions.

"Perfection, in this world, is a noble goal; yet, the wise as well as the good have often gone astray."