Hello from The Netherlands

gimenofl · 12-05-2007, 03:46 AM

Dear Brothers,

My initiation took place 22.11 in the Lodge 118 of the G:.O:. of the Netherlands. An unforgettable experience.

I am 31. y.o. Spanish, living in The Netherlands since June, before I lived in Germany, where I started my relationship with Masonry, Russia, France and Spain.

Very nice Forum.

Best regards

Ll. Gimeno

D. W. Brown · 12-05-2007, 01:19 PM

Welcome Brother Gimeno,

I look forward to visiting the Netherlands again one day but this time as a Mason. I would be honored to sit in a lodge with the brothers from there, probably would not understand a thing but would be interesting none the less.

. Please let us know if there is anything we can do for you and thanks for the compliment on the site. I know it is a little complex but it wasn't meant for the timid to use.

gimenofl · 12-05-2007, 03:07 PM

Thanks, you have my contact data in case you visit the Netherlands. After reading some of the debates I have become shy(!).

I did look at some threads and indeed they re not for the shy. It's very interesting to check the debates, some are very different to what we seem to have this side of the ocean.

Fraternally,

Lluis

D. W. Brown · 12-05-2007, 04:23 PM

Do tell Brother Lluis, I would be greatful to hear what Freemasonry is like in your lodge?

gimenofl · 12-06-2007, 03:01 AM

Well, we are under the "GrootOosten" the masonic GL in The Netherlands accepted by the GL of England. There are other masonic lines in the Netherlands, which are not accepted by the GL of England), basically the Grand Orient (French origin, no need to believe in a Supreme Being), the "Le Droit Humain", which is mixed, and the Grande Loge Feminine de France, a strictly female organisation. I only petitioned in the first.

We are 60 Bbr:. in the Lodge, which makes it one of the biggest of the 14 Lodges operating in The Hague. Average age is around 50, so at 31 I am the youngest member. Meeting is once a week.

I am an entered apprentice and it takes about 3 years to become a Master. An entered apprentice does hove, however full rights in the Lodge here, except to vote for new candidates. Now I have 1 year to learn to subdue my passions :-P.

I saw that in the US things are quite different, I found it very interesting (I admit a little shocking) to see how lively debates are on masonic authority in the US, I did notice reading american FM books that the social importance of masonry in America is huge, here it's rather discrete but still quite accesible, in some southern European countries, it's almost so discrete that you need to write and E-Mail to a lodge to get their address, because it will not be public.

Anyway, best regards and it would be nice to hear what is your Lodge like.

Lluís

D. W. Brown · 12-06-2007, 10:59 AM

Lluis,

I do find it interesting that Freemasonry in Europe is still in the closet as much as it is. It is my understanding, like you said, a lot of lodges and Masons do not let anyone know they exist. What is the reason for this in your opinion?

Yes, we American do love our controversary and rebellions don't we? ..

gimenofl · 12-06-2007, 12:49 PM

In my lodge there is a hanging on the wall with the names of the brothers who were killed in the ww2 by the nazis. About half the lodge.

I think it's some kind of protection system, more due to history than any present menace.

In Spain, the General Franco, killed thousands of masons, and it remained forbidden to be a mason until the 1970's. This also happened in Portugal I think, and in the communist block countries.

I also think that Europeans are quite restrained in showing their intimacy, maybe it's a catholic tradition. Mind you the Church has not helped in making masonry more accesible either.

I do not know exactly, why do you think it's more accesible in the US?

Which type of masonry do you call yours?

Fraternally,

Lluís

D. W. Brown · 12-06-2007, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimenofl

I do not know exactly, why do you think it's more accesible in the US?

Which type of masonry do you call yours?

Personally, I believe that it is more popular here because of religion. I am just speculating since I've done no real research on the subject but if you look real close at many freemasons here in the US, you'll find they are extremely religious. That religious aspect (Christian) coupled with the social club atmosphere of most lodges, attracts a large population.

I've never been a big supporter of organized religion so I take offense when I see Freemasonry hijacked by fanatical brothers. We are seeing more and more brothers, especially the younger generation, turning away from the “ Antient” system of Freemasonry for the more Esoteric versions like those of the Grand Orient’s. One thing that really bothers me about this whole process is the fervor by which the Antient’s are fighting the change. There is a real popular management book here in the U.S. called “Who Moved My Cheese”, a few of them could really benefit from a sit down with this book. Of course how do you explain corruption in a GL system to someone who looks to Genesis to see how the earth was created?

gimenofl · 12-06-2007, 02:19 PM

Hmmm, I am personally christian and did not consider GO Masonry because of the acceptance of atheists in the Lodge.

I do not understand however how can you be a mason and religiously fanatic, really.

It's more surprising when you consider that masonry is open to different religious beliefs.

Certainly there is a debate in the US with creationists and the like (I dislike the word creationist for this people who believe that we were made of clay, creationist is to me a word with a lot of good vibrations that can be applied to somebody like Einstein, not somebody who does not accep evolution).

What the hell is this antient-modern thing, I though the debate was closed in the XIX century with the introduction of the 3+1=3 degrees system?

Fraternally

Lluís

D. W. Brown · 12-06-2007, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimenofl

Hmmm, I am personally christian and did not consider GO Masonry because of the acceptance of atheists in the Lodge.

And there is I think one of the main differences in GO(Modern) vs. Antient forms of Freemasonry. When did Freemasonry change to not allow atheists in, wasn't it when Antient split from GO?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimenofl

I do not understand however how can you be a mason and religiously fanatic, really.

It's more surprising when you consider that masonry is open to different religious beliefs.

Can you elaborate more here?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimenofl

What the hell is this antient-modern thing, I though the debate was closed in the XIX century with the introduction of the 3+1=3 degrees system?

The merger of the Modern and Antient lodges here in the U.S. did not take place until the mid 18 century if I'm not mistaken. If you ask 95% (SWAG) of the Masons in the US about the merger they never even heard of it.