Should this man be disciplined? or expelled? What do you think? - Page 2

D. W. Brown · 07-13-2008, 03:29 PM

No Larry it is not a hypothetical question after all. Not sure why it was originally posted as such but this is the issue with Brother Charles Martin and his punishment for visiting a PHA lodge while serving in IRAQ.

LarryW · 07-13-2008, 09:23 PM

Thanks, Brother Dale. It can be extremely difficult to keep the politics of Masonry in mind while keeping them outside the Lodge, and I am sorry that Brother Charles will have to undergo this not-so-enjoyable ritual of Masonry. But my personal feeling is that while a member in good standing of the GL of KY, its laws, rules and edits are binding on him even while outside their physical boundaries. I believe some form of discipline is necessary because a Masonic offense apparently was committed.

I wish Brother Charles well and hope he gets the opportunity to clear his name and remain a member in good standing in at least one Grand Jurisdiction.

D. W. Brown · 07-14-2008, 10:09 PM

I'm a little more torn here Brother Larry. If KY Grand Lodge wants to punish him then fine, they are idiots for still harboring the racism and will eventually pay the price for that stance. My real problem comes if the Grand Lodge of NY honors his year long suspension imposed by the KY Grand Lodge. The GL of NY, which Brother Martin was also a member of, does allow blacks to join and does have inter visitation with PHA lodges.

Actually now that I think of it, when reading about this on the Internet I see many talking about KY not recognizing KY PHA because they have some issue with them. The PHA lodge that Brother Martin visited was NOT a KY PHA lodge, but a recognized Masonic body by NY Grand Lodge. Hmm will have to think about that a bit.

Emeth1 · 07-17-2008, 10:03 AM

All of masonry suffers, worldwide, when bigots and racists are allowed within our ranks. I think the masons of Kentucky have some real soul searching to do.

lcenter · 07-17-2008, 07:25 PM

I am late to the party, and believed at the outset that this was a hypothetical question. I will not address whatever actualities exist because I have less than the required knowledge to so, but let me address instead the hypothetical.

If a Brother finds himself in a similar quandary, he should attend the PH Lodge clothed in the badges of the Grand Lodge that accepts the PH Lodge. He is then acting and representing only one Grand Lodge. The other Grand Lodge (in theory) has no jurisdiction over his actions as a member of another jurisdiction.

That's my opinion... of course I've been wrong before....

Les

Emeth1 · 07-17-2008, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lcenter

I am late to the party, and believed at the outset that this was a hypothetical question. I will not address whatever actualities exist because I have less than the required knowledge to so, but let me address instead the hypothetical.

If a Brother finds himself in a similar quandary, he should attend the PH Lodge clothed in the badges of the Grand Lodge that accepts the PH Lodge. He is then acting and representing only one Grand Lodge. The other Grand Lodge (in theory) has no jurisdiction over his actions as a member of another jurisdiction.

That's my opinion... of course I've been wrong before....

Les

I think that is an AWESOME soultion! Then he can by rights say he was there as a mason from the lodge that allows it. Well done brother!

D. W. Brown · 07-20-2008, 07:05 PM

Actually that is kind of what happened. Brother Martin is a member of the GL of NY but his "Mother" GL was KY so they say they have jurisdiction of him and NY must comply with their ruling. If he would have demitted from KY before attending then this would not have been an issue but since he did not demit first then KY says they have the ultimate authority over him.

Mystic knight · 07-26-2008, 04:09 PM

When Masons bend from fear from what they know is wrong that is neither practicing fortitude or justice. They become accessories or collaborators in an evil we know as hate. The opposite of brotherly love.

degsey · 07-31-2008, 09:47 PM

It is my understanding that if a Master Mason has plural membership with lodges in other states/countries his primary loyalty is to the juristiction of the lodge in which he was raised and still retains membership.. So if a brother was raised in Kentucky and had a membership in a NY lodge he should abide by the edicts and laws of the Kentucky Grand Lodge, even in another state or country whether right or wrong.

The Prince Hall Lodge situation is different in every State and is not a race issue as they have many ethenic members. In my State the problem is which Prince Hall Grand Lodge do you recognise as there is more than one of them.

When brothers wiser than me work out that delima in my State I would be proud to sit in a Prince Hall Lodge or sit with their brothers in mine as we are all doing the same work.