Laïcité

D. W. Brown · 12-22-2007, 04:41 PM

This was taken from the Grand Orient of the United State of America's (that is a mouth full) web site. I think if we could all live by this it sure would be a better world. What do you think?

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The Grand Orient of the United States of America, like all forms of Free-Masonry, is based on the ideas and philosophies of the Age of Enlightenment. We remain true to all of the core convictions of the American Founding Fathers. Of these core convictions, one principle was the idea of the necessity for a separation of church and state. In French, this concept is known as laïcité and is a main component of both the liberal and republican traditions in Europe.

The conception of laïcité is based on the respect of freedom of thought and of freedom of religion. Thus, the absence of a state religion and the subsequent separation of the state and church are considered a prerequisite of such freedom of thought. Laïcité is thus distinct from anti-clericalism, which actively opposes the influence of religion and of the clergy. Laïcité relies on the division between private life, to which its adherents believe religion belongs, and the public sphere, in which each individual, its adherents believe, should appear devoid of ethnic, religious or others particularities, and as a simple citizen equal to all others citizens. According to this conception, the government must refrain from taking positions on religious doctrine and only consider religious subjects from their practical consequences on inhabitants' lives.

The laïc humanism relies on the principle of total freedom of conscience.

Freedom of the mind: liberation in regard to all dogmas; the right to believe or not to believe in a deity; autonomy of thought concerning religious, political and economical constraints; emancipation of life styles in relation to taboos, prevailing ideas and dogmatic rules.

Laïcité aims to liberate children and adults from everything that alienates or corrupts their minds, particularly atavistic beliefs, prejudices, preconceived ideas, dogmas, oppressive ideology and cultural, economical, social, political or religious pressure. Laïcité also aims to develop in human nature, within the framework of a permanent intellectual, moral and civic formation, a critical mind along with a feeling of solidarity and brotherhood.

The freedom of expression is the corollary to total freedom of conscience. It is the right and the material possibility to speak, to write and to distribute individual and collective thoughts. The new technological advances in communication make this requirement even more vital. There must be a special vigilance in the face of this powerful means of manipulation and perversion of the mind.

The laïc morality is simple; it is based on the principle of mutual tolerance and the respect of others as well as oneself. The good is all that liberates, all that emancipates; the evil is all that enslaves and degrades. Laïcité aims in this context to give people the means to acquire a complete lucidity and full responsibility for their thoughts and actions (acts founded on the needs of social life and the promotion of individual liberty) it is essential in the construction of social harmony and the reinforcement of public mindedness. It tends to institute, beyond ideological, community or national differences, a human society favorable to everyone's enlightenment, a society from which all exploitation or conditioning of man by another man, all fanatical spirit, hate and violence will be excluded.

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brandt · 12-25-2007, 05:36 AM

It would be great if we could all live up to those high ideas. The question we should ask is why we don't?

Brandt

Joe West · 12-28-2007, 02:41 PM

To the Masons on this forum, I am very new to the idea of Masonry. I just found out my great grandfather was member of the Masons. It has sparked an interest in me.

I found this writing quite profound and would be honored if my familiy is associated with this group.

I followed the link under Mr. Brown's post and read the Grand Orient's page and parts of the laudible pursuit.

I googled the Grand Orient and got a bunch of confusing information. Where would California or Colorado (the most convienient for me right now) have such a headquarters?

The men who wrote Knight's of the North who signed their name to the other book have little to nothing available.

Does the Grand Orient keep records that would allow me to see when my great grandfather became a member?

D. W. Brown · 12-28-2007, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe West

I found this writing quite profound and would be honored if my familiy is associated with this group.

I followed the link under Mr. Brown's post and read the Grand Orient's page and parts of the laudible pursuit.

I googled the Grand Orient and got a bunch of confusing information. Where would California or Colorado (the most convienient for me right now) have such a headquarters?

The men who wrote Knight's of the North who signed their name to the other book have little to nothing available.

Does the Grand Orient keep records that would allow me to see when my great grandfather became a member?

There are many aspects of Freemasonry that can have a profound effect on your life, in multiple ways.

The Grand Orient does have lodges in California but you will not find one on every corner like you do in Antient Freemasonry. Many times they do not even really discuss, in public, their existence. They are much more picky about who is able to join and have a much longer process to become a Master Mason than many other systems who some will make you a 32 degree in one day.

Some tout "they take good men and make them better" but I see little of that from many larger groups. I'd rather see a lodge with 7 members, who act like Masons, than 500 full of people who only care about title chasing.

Joe West · 12-29-2007, 09:05 AM

Do you have any contact info like an e-mail for the lodges in California. It seems for your writing on the other post that Modern lodges are more fulfilling so it sounds like they are the best place to start for my own interest.

D. W. Brown · 01-06-2008, 08:31 PM

Joe we'll take this offline (Private Messaging) and I'll be more than happy to point you in the right direction.

K_T_Badger · 01-08-2008, 12:33 PM

Wow. Very interesting. You know that the group who introduced this idea originally was the Grand Orient of France, it replaces the idea of belief the GAOTU and was the reason why they are no longer recognized by any regular Grand Lodge.
It is a good Idea, but I don't believe we should be so quick to chuck out our landmarks, or send prospective members off to clandestine lodges. Just my opinion. Thanks.

D. W. Brown · 01-08-2008, 12:44 PM

Badger,

I keep seeing people say landmarks but it is my understanding the landmarks as we know them, the multiple version of them, were written much later post 1700s. Brother Peace points out that even Anderson, in both constitutions did not list any landmarks.

K_T_Badger · 01-08-2008, 01:40 PM

Well as far as Anderson is concerned I will have to look that up when I get home, and get back to you on that.
Before they existed in their current form, just as before the craft existed in it's current form, these landmarks have always been an inalienable part of Masonry. For example: Article 15 of the Regius Manuscript (the oldest Freemasonic document that we know of) states:

Fifteenth article.

The fifteenth article maketh an end,
For to the master he is a friend;
To teach him so, that for no man,
No false maintenance he take him upon,
Nor maintain his fellows in their sin,
For no good that he might win;
Nor no false oath suffer him to make,
For dread of their souls' sake,
Lest it would turn the craft to shame,
And himself to very much blame.

Plural constitutions.

At this assembly were points ordained mo, (more)
Of great lords and masters also.
That who will know this craft and come to estate,
He must love well God and holy church algate, (always)
And his master also that he is with,
Wheresoever he go in field or frythe, (enclosed wood)
And thy fellows thou love also,
For that thy craft will that thou do.

That manuscript as you know dates to around 1390 and predates Anderson by about 350 years. The thing about the landmarks is that they are lines that Masons willfully will not cross. They lay out the ideals from which we base our system. Our fraternity is a voluntary association, and we all agree to the same Oath and Obligation. That's part of being a Mason.

Please don't take this as an insult bro. but you are still young in the craft, and is it really in the Fraternity's best interest to turn people towards an unrecognized lodge? If it is more light you seek, have you looked into joining a Research Lodge in your jurisdiction?

D. W. Brown · 01-08-2008, 02:19 PM

Brother Badger, I'd be happy to discuss the issues around recognition with you in another topic but let's stick to the topic of this thread to minimize confusion.