Tyranny is Alive in Kentucky GL - Page 9

Stealth · 05-01-2008, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dean@owencpa.com

See Stealth, we disagree on this CRITICAL point, knowing the grip and words does not make a man a Mason, what makes a man a Mason is his obligation, his adherence to them, did he go through the channels that ensure proper teaching and instruction was given and required, is he proficient in work... there is a LOT more to being a Mason than knowing some words and signs and a ceremony given to the candidate, the candidate must give back, and must continue to LIVE according to his obligations........

as brutal as it seems, many here prove that the PH organization has an entirely different set of standards.... and there is an expectation a Mason will come to the table with a well researched arguement before slandering someone he wants to call Brother....

So given all that, why would ANY ONE want people who do what you have done here in thier organization??????

Looks to me like you are sore someone will not give you what you have not earned.....

I earned all my Masonic Degrees ALL except the thirty-third degree.
I am WELL VERSED IN Masonry so calling me an idiot doesn't sound to me as if you have had a real dose of true Masonry.

"knowing the grip and words does not make a man a Mason, what makes a man a Mason is his obligation, his adherence to them, did he go through the channels that ensure proper teaching and instruction was given and required, is he proficient in work... there is a LOT more to being a Mason than knowing some words and signs and a ceremony given to the candidate, the candidate must give back, and must continue to LIVE according to his obligations"
This we agree upon.

My Lodge does not take a man and make him a MM is 6 to 8 weeks either you are an EA at least 6-8 months possibly a year. Our candidates go through a very lengthy period of learning from degree to degree. Most MSM Lodges make MM's far too quick.

I'll stack my Lodge against any lodge in the MSM anytime.

Stealth · 05-01-2008, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dean@owencpa.com

See Stealth, we disagree on this CRITICAL point, knowing the grip and words does not make a man a Mason, what makes a man a Mason is his obligation, his adherence to them, did he go through the channels that ensure proper teaching and instruction was given and required, is he proficient in work... there is a LOT more to being a Mason than knowing some words and signs and a ceremony given to the candidate, the candidate must give back, and must continue to LIVE according to his obligations........

as brutal as it seems, many here prove that the PH organization has an entirely different set of standards.... and there is an expectation a Mason will come to the table with a well researched arguement before slandering someone he wants to call Brother....

So given all that, why would ANY ONE want people who do what you have done here in thier organization??????

Looks to me like you are sore someone will not give you what you have not earned.....

and are made a mason according to the principles of Masonry

Covers what you claim I don't get.

D. W. Brown · 05-01-2008, 10:51 PM

Everyone please accept my apology for letting this go on as long as I did. Some may not agree with my decision and I am willing to listen, as always, but I have banned Dean's account.

I'll be the first to admit, I get a little worked up sometimes and when posting new information I will tend to make the subject lines and matter provocative. This in no way is meant to hurt Freemasonry but to bring to the table topics I feel are important and want to see them debated.

Again, if you feel by banning his account you feel I have acted heavy handed, please by all means let's discuss it.

Stealth · 05-01-2008, 10:51 PM

How much is the GL and the GM paying you for unMasonic conduct?
YOUR GL and GM are in the middle of a storm and Ky needs to worry about NY is going to do.

D. W. Brown · 05-01-2008, 10:54 PM

Now Brother Bluegrass.. I'm very interested to hear more about what is the real schism between PHA and MSM Masons in KY. Dean alluded to other issues that are not related to race, can you elaborate on the subject?

Stealth · 05-01-2008, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D. W. Brown

Everyone please accept my apology for letting this go on as long as I did. Some may not agree with my decision and I am willing to listen, as always, but I have banned Dean's account.

I'll be the first to admit, I get a little worked up sometimes and when posting new information I will tend to make the subject lines and matter provocative. This in no way is meant to hurt Freemasonry but to bring to the table topics I feel are important and want to see them debated.

Again, if you feel by banning his account you feel I have acted heavy handed, please by all means let's discuss it.

Brother Dale,

I think he was sent here to cause problems. Can you say chaos ab Ordo?

I would also like to offer my apology for allowing it to get the best of me but these things do.

grandsecretary · 05-02-2008, 04:00 AM

You have no need to apologise Brother Dale. You are not responsible for the odious Dean. I blame the parents.

Quote:

The first article of this Geometry:

The master mason must be full securely
Both steadfast, trusty and true,
It shall him never then rue;

Bro. Bluegrass · 05-02-2008, 08:34 AM

Brother Brown,

As I understand it, the MSM GL of KY claims supremacy over ALL masonic operations in Kentucky. Any masonic body that operates within the Commonwealth is subjet to the oversight, rules and regulations of the MSM GL of KY. Any masonic body that operates within the state, that does not submit itself to the GL of KY, is considered clandestine or irregular.

That is my understanding of the core issue.

With respect to the PHA GL of KY, there may be significant differences between MSM and PHA ritual that could preclude recognition between the two bodies. I am not familiar with PHA ritual, so I cannot say for sure. However, considering the above, this may be one of the issues that flows from the MSM GL of KY claim of masonic supremacy within the Commonwealth.

One thing that I would like to point out is this; recognition does not "solve" the issue. It is a step forward, to be sure, but it is only one step. Another step that must be undertaken is the allowance for MEN of any race to petition any of the lodges of the Commonwealth, to allow MEN to be initiated, passed, and raised, and to allow said brothers unfettered access to the secrets of Ancient Freemasonry. To that end, I would again note that the Grand Lodge of Kentucky requires that a candidate be a MAN and makes no declaration regarding his color or status.

This distinction and the ongoing enforcement of this from the Grand Lodge level, to me, is a very positive step and perhaps more positive than simple recognition. Recognition could be considered a superficial action. It can create a 'separate but equal' type mindset. While recognition overtly satisfies the pallet, it does not address the underlying issue - that ALL men that satisfy the requirements for admission and candidacy based upon the requirements of the Grand Lodge are worthy. The actions of the Grand Lodge with respect to the initiation, passing, and raising of two African-American Brother Masons, to me, is a much more challenging and in the long run more complete solution to the problems at hand.

cemab4y · 05-08-2008, 06:31 AM

I got informed yesterday, that a trial date has been set. I pray that brotherly love and peace can prevail. Obviously, I cannot attend, being in Iraq.

TM274 · 05-08-2008, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cemab4y

I got informed yesterday, that a trial date has been set. I pray that brotherly love and peace can prevail. Obviously, I cannot attend, being in Iraq.

cemab4y.......I fervently hope that it goes your way. This is madness. I've been reading a lot of your posts and find you very sincere.
Your intentions were honourable and because of a ruling by GL o KY, you stnd to be booted out. Worse thing is.......that they want you out of GL o NY.
It is such a mess. May commonsense be the winner and that you are retained in your Lodge.
All I can say is............HOPE.