dean@owencpa.com

while I am sure there are lodges in KY that would refuse a Black Man from admission, mine, and the various ones I visit, are not them.....

this place is a bunch of guys sitting around with no education on the matter over inflating a small, but painful issue for KY for their own betterment and to garner attention about how anti-racist they are. It is the Jessie Jackson/Al Sharpton component who sees a racist in every corner as a means to justify their own short comings in life and unwillingness to get an education on the matter.... it is like the riots in LA when the mod burned its own city in some form of protest over a perceived injustice, using that perceived injustice to attack others at will and indiscriminately destroy others and themselves......

KY can no more recognize PH today than we can the Kiwanis, and that is PH's fault, not KY Masonry....

George the 3rd

As a Mason from Ohio where we have had no problem recognizing The Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Ohio I find this statement both puzzling and disturbing!

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dean@owencpa.com

http://bessel.org/glspha.htm

as the site above notes, there are NO GL's recognizing PH in KY, none, nada, zip.....

and that is not a MS KY GL problem, or one it can resolve...... but there is a reason

Stealth

The start of meeting upon the level must start with "A" GM sending a formal letter to the other GM.

So why hasn't the GL of KY done so? Blaming PHA of KY is a hostile statement that is NOT helping your cause.
Could it be that the GL of KY is afraid that the GM of PHA of KY might agree to formal talks of recognitition?

Stealth

Why hasn't the GL of Ky made such a request? Blaming PHA is a cop-out. Look at yourself in the mirror first before pointing blame.


My concern is ALL GL's should offer the olive branch and stop pretenting all is well.
The "White Only" signs didn't come down until after someone breeched the status quo. Now its pasted time for all MSM GL's to offer unity.

Bro. Bluegrass

I am not seeking to lay the blame regarding PHA recognition at anyone's feet. I am relating the facts as I know them. The 'blame game' is not relevant or conducive. The fact is that the MSM GL of KY, for whatever reason, has not recognized the PHA GL of KY. Nor, as far as I know, has the PHA GL of KY requested recognition.

It is interesting to note (in the link above http://bessel.org/glspha.htm) that of the 40 or so US MSM GL's, none has recognized the PHA GL of KY. Why is this?

Stealth

No GL should have to ask another GL to recognize them. If they are adhering to proper grips and words and are made mason according to the principles of Masonry NO GL should ever have to ask, beg or plead with another GL to deem them real.

dean@owencpa.com

See Stealth, we disagree on this CRITICAL point, knowing the grip and words does not make a man a Mason, what makes a man a Mason is his obligation, his adherence to them, did he go through the channels that ensure proper teaching and instruction was given and required, is he proficient in work... there is a LOT more to being a Mason than knowing some words and signs and a ceremony given to the candidate, the candidate must give back, and must continue to LIVE according to his obligations........

as brutal as it seems, many here prove that the PH organization has an entirely different set of standards.... and there is an expectation a Mason will come to the table with a well researched arguement before slandering someone he wants to call Brother....

So given all that, why would ANY ONE want people who do what you have done here in thier organization??????

Looks to me like you are sore someone will not give you what you have not earned.....

D. W. Brown

Ok.. First Dean, the majority of us here are NOT PH Masons, as you seem to believe. Second, you have now on numerous occasions accused most here of being uneducated, which you should be careful of such slanderous statements or you may find out just how educated we are. Third, you have attacked Brother Charles and his service to his country, which in my opinion is unforgivable, given how many of our friends, neighbors and Brothers of dying every day in Iraq. So, tone it down, actually take the time to read the comments and discuss them politely, or leave...

I am extremely interested in a few things you have stated, such as, the raising of a Black man in KY. I would love to see you continue to contribute to this discussion but in a productive manner, not a slanderous one. Do I make myself clear?

__________________
Dale Brown, 3°
TBL Staff
__________________

Must Reads for Every Mason:

A Peculiar System of Morality | Laudable Pursuit | The Ancient Landmarks
The Truth About the Antients and the Moderns | It's About Time
__________________

Must Visit Links for Masons:

Grand Orient de France | Grand Orient of the United States of America
The Burning Taper | Halcyon Lodge | The Philalethes Society

dean@owencpa.com

Well, if the majority are NOT PH Masons, then where is the outrage of a bunch of people from an outside entity claiming to have anything of relevance to say abut MS Masonry in KY, slandering the GM, making up lies about the recognition issue, and tying it to the very real and painful situation Charles Martin is in????? This bunch of race baiters are using him for bait to push their own political agenda.... and the drip tears for him, while stabbing him in the back by making this an ugly, and difficult situation for everyone.....

Truth be told, he likely can not avoid expulsion now, because the attention level is so high and the race baiters have perched him on top of the alter to be sacrificed for their own political agenda.... PERIOD.... so there people are ignorant and dangerous fools, or intentional deceptive, one of the two is fundamental truth...

As to uneducated, I never said anyone was uneducated until AFTER the two started with why they did not see the need to get information on the subject matter, so they are ignorant and uneducated, PERIOD. then they CONFIRMED their lack of education, and damned determination to make sure that did not change. If you, them, or anyone else chooses to be an uneducated fool, so be it, it is a free country, but then it is also free for me to point that fact out..... as to Masonic education, I have served on more than one education committee, and formal education is not an area I am lacking, you may be able to say the same, but tread carefully in these matters.... as I have....

You got this bozo of a "Grand Secretary" telling everyone the GM must go because he does not selectively enforce a constitution, that getting the facts before a jury makes a decision is unimportant, and he has lots of experience in judicial matters.... ummmmm, not like any Grand Secretary I have ever met... or want to.... if he wants to put himself on that pedestal, so be it, but he should not make himself such an easy target, because someone will take the shot at him.... and I am not afraid to be the one to do it....

I chose my words very, very carefully, I have in no way insulted Charles, I have tried to help his situation far, far more than apparently anyone here cares to.... so do not go there... I have been discussing these matters with him, and trying to assist his efforts, for YEARS.... he has no stronger ally than I, but I am a Mason first, and apparently I am one of the few who take that position.... most here obviously want to sacrifice him for their own justification in believing MS Masonry is racist....

I have been to Iraq twice, and it was not a sight seeing tour, so do not even start to go there, you will be embarrassed.... I have LIVED enough experience to be the one to say that simply being in Iraq or Afghanistan does not change the issues or give a man a free pass.... if unacceptable behavior were acceptable because someone was a Mason in war Benedict Arnold would not have been hanged.... This line of defense gets Charles expelled and only serves to enforce emotion based thinking which over rides logic, a rather unmasonic trait....

Black men have been raised in KY MS lodges, period, not much more to it than that.... I know of no instances where black men have been turned away, or voted down, there is probably some, but it is not a regular occurrence. Yet the race baiters keep screaming race, race, race.... there are bigots on both sides of the isle....

Some my not like my tone, but I do not care, the polite conversations here before my post did not get the point across, so if the audience wants to play hard ball with the issue, I will, and have... again, the tone may be offensive, but the point is 100% on target, and maybe, just maybe, it will get sunk in.... polite whispers in the ear are not working....

Bottom line, I am 100% correct, have chosen my words carefully, and the ONLY negative comments anyone can make about my comments are the tone.... so far I figure I am one of the few being honest here......

as to Black men being raised in KY, I know it happened, I assume it will happen again, some like it, some do not, but for the most part, they are just Masons.... and I consider them Brothers.... and expect a much higher standard of behavior from them than I have seen here....