dean@owencpa.com

this explains much, you want to be recognized by MS Masonry but do not know of its obligations or differences... kinda of like "gimmie credit without me having to live to those standards"....

The fact you are not part of MS Masonry explains much of the uneducated ranting and raving going on about this issue....

dean@owencpa.com

I would take one step further... it is not the eldest generation that this matters to, it is the baby boomers, the ones who largely did not join Masonry.... but today are the primary "senior elders". Our oldest generation seems to be non-concerned, the generation behind them has much hesitancy, and the youngest generations do not like it...

however after seeing these exchanges on many different boards, I am now solidly against recognition based upon an entirely different standard of behavior in the two organizations....

Bro. Bluegrass

Grandsecretary,

I will preface my response with the acknowledgement that my understanding of this matter comes from reading the various forums and blogs. Therefore, without knowing the specifics of the matter beyond what was/is publically available, I'll not place a wager as to the probable outcome of this case.

Now, that being said, I will note that Brother Martin HAS publically stated his attendance at an irregular/clandestine lodge. Before anyone has at me with scimitar, THAT is the main issue with regards to Brother Martin. The issue of race, as Brother Dean has stated, albeit quite directly, is not the matter. It is his Masonic communication with a irregular/clandestine lodge.

Consider this - Had Brother Martin done the same with a Lodge of Master Miners and Circus Clowns ( Antient and Free), would there be such concern? Perhaps, perhaps not. However, that Brother Martin had this Masonic communication with a Lodge of Prince Hall Masons then 'race' is inserted into the discussion. It is at this point, I believe, that good, upright, thinking men lose sight of the primary concern.

I will also note that if Masonic charges are presented against Brother Martin (if they have not already), then the Grand Lodge of Kentucky will follow the proper protocols and begin a proper Masonic Trial. Our Constitution contains the requirements for this, and, considering the publicity this matter has already generated, I'm quite sure that those requirements will be met - to the letter.

My personal hope is that this matter is dispensed with quickly, and with the minimum amount of punishment necessary. The Past Masters that will make up the trial panel will complete their requirements, and meter the correct punishment. I will place my trust in their judgement.

As an aside, I'd like to also note that two gentlemen of African-American descent were recently passed and raised at a Blue Lodge here in Kentucky. Brothers, please understand that the times, they are a changin', and we'll be along presently.

dean@owencpa.com

is there a prohibition on PH members from demiting from there and joining MS Masonry? I do not believe there is one in KY, but not sure....

if there is no prohibition then why don't you boys just demit and move on over if you want recognition so badly.....this should not be that hard....

but be wary of how you enter a MS Masons Lodge, you would be expected to actually live up to the obligations taken.....

grandsecretary

Brother Dean,

This Grand Lodge's position is crystal clear, and widely known throughout the Masonic world on the issue of Grand Lodge "recognition". The Grand Lodge of All England is wholly disinterested in the entire concept of Grand Lodge "recognition" which it regards as being profoundly un-Masonic. This policy will not change.

To the issues at hand: you have now placed on record that Brother Martin's actions, and disciplinary problems are more numerous, serious and complicated than he has led us to believe, and you are constrained by reason of confidentiality not to provide any further details.

I believe that this summary of the substance of what Brother Dean has attempted to convey is a fair one.

grandsecretary

Brother Bluegrass, I am more inclined to your view, although I cannot accept that the PH Lodge in question is either irregular, or clandestine.

Surely, if this were the case, then the Grand Lodge of Kentucky would be honour bound to remove "recognition" from The Grand Lodge of New York?

That seems to be a consistent approach to me, even if it is daft.

Stealth

MSM's don't get it and never will. Attacking their own is NOT part of YOUR obligation neither is YOUR Masonry Ancient or Accepted. YOUR Masonry at best is modern (1830's) and is not Craft or Continental its Americanized Masonry.

My Lodge uses ritual from 1743 and we live up to TRUE Masonic principles not political driven bloated GL's.

Recognition? HA! I ma VERY Happy not being recognized by narrow minded, ego driven, pretenious Masons who are self-righteous laying claim to all Masonic knowledge when you have no idea of the multi-facets of Free-Masonry.

Now go back and crawl into your GM's cave and report the GL of Ky has placed itself on the list of tyrannical GL's with:
West Virginia
Alabama
Georgia
Ohio
Arizona
Michigan
and still growing..........

Your problem is not us but YOUR GL leaders...........
OH! You are still dodging the question

Bro. Bluegrass

Grandsecretary,

I cannot speak to the issue of recognition with respect to the Grand Lodge of New York. However, I do note that the "junior" Grand Lodge is the body that typically requests "recognition" from the "senior" Grand Lodge. From what I understand, no Prince Hall Grand Lodge has requested such from the Grand Lodge of Kentucky.

As I understand it, the Prince Hall Lodge in Iraq that was visited by Bro. Martin received its charter from a Prince Hall Grand Lodge in Oklahoma. I do not know if either that Oklahoma chartered Lodge, or the PH Grand Lodge of Oklahoma has requested recognition from the GL of Kentucky.

(I apologize. I realize the word "recognition" is the quite correct, but I cannot think of the correct term at the moment.)

If the above is indeed the case, then Bro. Martin did indeed visit and communicate Masonically with an irregular or clandestine lodge. Now, whether this was intentional or not, or he thought the Grand Lodge of NY "trumped" the GL of KY rules, I do not know.

D. W. Brown

Brother Bluegrass, let me applaud you for your thoughtful and well written responses. Tempers can tend to flair and flame wars begin when Brothers have such strong convictions about a subject. Maybe I should rename this site "The Blue Lodge Caucus".

Being a member of an Antient (MSM) lodge in Alabama, I can without a doubt tell you that race is the only thing that has ever been used by Brothers that I have heard to justify why we don't recognize PHA Masons. I cannot speak directly about what goes on behind the closed doors in KY lodges but can only assume the same types of conversations go on there as well. If this is not the case then let me be the first to offer my apologies.

As you state, many younger Masons are trying to change things from within and I applaud them for their efforts. However, many Brothers from various state jurisdictions who have tried have also been summarily expelled, without even the benefit of trials. Many on trumped up charges and right or wrong, charges that can be quantified via their states GL constitutions / obligations. I long for the day when the walls of recognition come crumbling down and we can all sit together as one and have the same heated debates..

I love the fact that Brother Dean is so passionate about his stance, however misguided it is, in my opinion.

Ok, I've sat here so long typing this I have forgotten where I was headed with this reply.

__________________
Dale Brown, 3°
TBL Staff
__________________

Must Reads for Every Mason:

A Peculiar System of Morality | Laudable Pursuit | The Ancient Landmarks
The Truth About the Antients and the Moderns | It's About Time
__________________

Must Visit Links for Masons:

Grand Orient de France | Grand Orient of the United States of America
The Burning Taper | Halcyon Lodge | The Philalethes Society
Regulus Lodge | Sirius Lodge | Emeth Lodge

__________________

Something Every Freemason Should Fight For:

Pickens Plan

Stealth

Brother Dale,

I agree until 1921 these words were not used. Frankly I believe this was when the wedge was driven into place that has caused the great loss of membership and those who can't sneeze without GL permission.

This subject is dead as far as i am concerned. The GL of Ky has done their deed. Now its up to the GL of NY to do one of two things.

1. Blink and all stays the same.
2. Ignore the GL of Ky's expulsion and we will see major change from most of the GL's that refuse PHA recognition.

Fact is some GL must step up and place the stone of toleration in the MSM Temple foundation or their Temple will crumble.