Tyranny is Alive in Kentucky GL - Page 4

dean@owencpa.com · 04-29-2008, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth

Your GL needs to show the world they are true to the words of meeting on the level. Grant recognition to EVERY BLACK MASON REGUARDLESS OF THEIR AFFILIATION WITH THE GL OF KY but more especially the PHA.

Now back to this question. Several lodges within YOUR jurisdiction have websites listing "Famous Masons" some of them listed are/were PHA Masons.

If it is unmasonic for Brother Martin to attend a MM Degree in a Logde that YOU jurisdiction has not recognized then these lodges are as guikty as you say he is. PULL THEIR CHARTERS NOW. LIVE BY YOU EDICTS AND CONSTITUTION if you're GL is unwilling to change then these lodges as gulity also.

you make a good point..... not all in KY see a PHA memeber as a non-Mason, and while I could easily push that issue and get those things changed, I don't think I will.... I prefer steps forward, not backward...

But please, feel free, take the KKK agenda and run with it.... the GL of KY has a website, you can get addresses and phone numbers right there.... but don't to high on that platform, there will be those who will stop you... but hey, you will get a hell of a emotional fix telling everyone how you tried to help drive the wedge deeper between MS and PHA.....

Stealth · 04-29-2008, 09:25 PM

You dodged the question just as YOUR GM dodged it when I asked him.

The GL of KY claims the PHA GL as IRREGULAR and CLANDESTINE.

The jurisdiction of KY has lodges with websites listing 'Famous Masons" some of which are/were PHA. So if the GL of KY's Constitution sttaes that PHA is irregular and clandestine these lodges recognizing PHA Masons as regular Famous Masons they are alos guilty and YOUR Edicts and Constitution states that is unMasonic conduct. PULL THE CHARTERS.

The next question is: WHY DOES THE GL of KY consider the PHA GL as irregular and clandestine?

Stealth · 04-29-2008, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grandsecretary

Of course there are two sides to every story, but you presume to suggest that we have not considered both sides and are taking a one sided view. That is not the case. We know EXACTLY what is at stake here, and have taken a legitimate view which obviously in not in concord with yours. We are entitled, as you are, to express that view.

The easiest road for Masons on this forum would be to ignore the situation and allow people like you to throw one of your own Brothers to the wolves without any consideration for the man.

Now for your diminishing of his situation in Iraq. Charles Martin is working in support of the war effort in Iraq. His life is in more danger than our allied armed forces because he is working outside of the green zone. And what do you do, you stab him in the back.

Now for the actual issue here. This is NOT a race issue. It is an issue which is quite clear. One of his Grand Lodges "recognises" the Lodge that he is visiting, and the other does not. This brings the entire system of Grand Lodge "recognition" into ridicule and disrepute.

If you take the trouble to read the previous postings you will see that all we have said is that the GM of the Grand Lodge of Kentucky should, yes in our opinion, suspend disciplinary action against Brother Martin until his Kentucky Grand Lodge comes into line with his New York Grand Lodge.

Now you come up with an alternative solution that will assist your brother in his time of distress.

Now, I do not "call MYSELF" a Grand Secretary, I AM a Grand Secretary, a well paid and professional Grand Secretary of many years standing, so please do not be so impertinent.

Here, Here Brother Peter!!

dean@owencpa.com · 04-29-2008, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth

You dodged the question just as YOUR GM dodged it when I asked him.

The GL of KY claims the PHA GL as IRREGULAR and CLANDESTINE.

The jurisdiction of KY has lodges with websites listing 'Famous Masons" some of which are/were PHA. So if the GL of KY's Constitution sttaes that PHA is irregular and clandestine these lodges recognizing PHA Masons as regular Famous Masons they are alos guilty and YOUR Edicts and Constitution states that is unMasonic conduct. PULL THE CHARTERS.

The next question is: WHY DOES THE GL of KY consider the PHA GL as irregular and clandestine?

KY does not recognize Kiwanis either.... I suspect you support their being recognized? If so, why not?

Maybe you guys are just the white version of Jessie Jackson or something... I guess it takes all kinds....

In Ky PH and MS Masonry are VERY different, degree work, obligations, and the like are apparently irreconcilable, I have had to many people who tried to get them together say that....

Or course that is just to simple, so please, carry on with the bashing of GL officers.... it is apparent your obligations are mear make up used to cover a thinly veiled agenda....

D. W. Brown · 04-29-2008, 10:18 PM

Brother Dean.. I hate to state the obvious here but in this case I feel an "obligation" too. The only reasons you have stated for not allowing recognition between KY MS ( Antient) and PHA Masons is "VERY different degree work, obligations and the like". Aren't they also different from the other states who DO recognize them?

Don't get me wrong, I'm an advocate for states rights and a staunch supporter for the separation of church and state. However, I also believe Freemasonry "was" meant to be a place void of the external trappings of our local influences.

Brother, As an Armed Forces Veteran of the Gulf myself, I feel you owe Brother Charles a serious apology for the belittling of his service to his country, whether it be as a civilian or a solider.

Stealth · 04-30-2008, 12:26 AM

You dodged the question yet again. As usual MSM's can only cut the throats of their own Brothers and defame their character before a trial.
MSM has proven time and time again that they are much like a cult when its volunteer membership asks questions or disagrees with their jurisdiction. When blindly moving along and staying silent becomes wrong members are rewarded with back stabbing, lies and half truths by men whom they thought were their trusted friends and brothers. You have defamed Brther Martin a man serving in danger in a terrorist nation while his Brother crucify him at home. Shame on you, shame on the GL of KY and shame on your Grand Officer's. You have torn down the temple of brotehrly love and affection shame on you.

Recognizing PHA does not change either GL's ritual work. As Brother Dale stated each state's work is different so it ain't holding water.

As long as the GL of KY ignore the facts:

KY is one of 10 states that REFUSE to recognize PHA Masonry as regular based upon what? Ritual work? PLEASE ..........

You and your GL needs to actively work towards true Masonic principles that include recognition of PHA Free-Masons as your Brothers.

Since you and your GM keep dodging several questions on this subject and your only defense is "different ritual work" you give the impression that toleration does not exist in KY.

Now once again the questions:

1. Your jurisdiction does not recognize PHA-WHY?
2. When is your GM and GL going to change your out-dated Constitution?

You have lodges in your jurisdiction listing unrecognized, clandestine Masons (according to your constitution) on their websites as "Famous Masons". This puts them in violation of YOUR own law which inturn means they have committed un-Masonic conduct.
3. When will their charters be pulled?

grandsecretary · 04-30-2008, 03:33 AM

Now stop foaming at the mouth Dean, and let's deal with these issues in a calm and reasonable manner.

From my experience of Brother Charles Martin, he seems to be a perfectly reasonable and rational individual. He does not come across to me as being a trouble maker, not even mildly difficult.

From what he has told me:

1) He has, over a considerable period of time, politely requested that the Grand Lodge of New York might activate the Land, Sea, and Air Lodge travelling warrant. This request has been refused, and no alternative has been offered. He feels that they have not taken the time to explain to him why this is such an impossibility.

2) In the meantime, he openly and honestly visited a perfectly respectable PHA Lodge which is "recognised" by one of his own Grand Lodges, The Grand Lodge of New York.

3) Sister Grand Lodges, The Grand Lodge of New York and The Grand Lodge of Kentucky, seemingly, cannot agree over the "recognition" of the PHA Lodge in question.

4) One of these Grand Lodges has started disciplinary proceedings against an individual at a time when he is away from his country and his family, on active service in a war zone. This is coming across as a gross over-reaction.

Now, if you are saying that Charles Martin is not being honest, and that there are more issues here that we are unaware of, then let's have it.

It cannot be beyond the wit of man to find a way of providing Freemasons with the where with all, within the green zones, whilst on active service. The PHA Lodge has managed it. Why not the Grand Lodge of New York or the Grand Lodge of Kentucky?

You are, from what you say, closely in touch with what is going on, so calm down, and let us know if there is more to this than meets the eye. At the moment you are coming across as being unnecessarily aggressive, offensive, and unreasonable, which is masking what you are trying to convey to us.

dean@owencpa.com · 04-30-2008, 09:37 AM

Well, given the level of disrespect of our GL's and GM's around here, I am now wondering if my thinking that recognition was such a good idea....

I apologize for ever entering this place, it is overly apparent our ideas of what Masonry is are irreconcilable.

grandsecretary · 04-30-2008, 09:49 AM

Well now we know. All wind and no sails.

Quote:

“To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.”

Abraham Lincoln

grandsecretary · 04-30-2008, 10:13 AM

I have just received another private message from this person calling himself Dean which simply amounts to another diatribe of incoherent insults.

Let us be very clear. This person, Dean, whoever or whatever it is, has been given ample opportunity to defend the actions being taken against Brother Martin, in a calm and brotherly manner, and he has chosen not to.

I hope that the Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of Kentucky is pleased with his efforts. Shameful, unforgivable behaviour.