George the 3rd

I suppose it depends on your perspective!

witnessofjesus

Welcome, Brother Sapp, and I am glad to have you with us on this forum as one of our distinguished Prince Hall brethren. Greetings to you and if you're ever in Virginia, please stop by and pay my lodge a visit, and I'll personally introduce you to our Worshipful Master and have you join us in Lodge.

Yes, I would agree with you, that from reading the landmarks of our Order, that the Grand Master of Ohio had the authority to do what he did, and had the legal authority to dispose of the WM and the officers of that renegade lodge and dispose of them, this is why they had to reject his authority because they knew he had this right, and they have now made of themselves, at least until some type of resolution is reached, clandestine Masons and are not to be fellowshipped with as brethren until such time as they are restored to full fellowship with the Grand Lodge of Ohio.

It's been nice meeting you on the the "Leve."

Sincerely,

Bro. Eric Martin
Lynnhaven Lodge No. 220
http://www.vamason.org/no220

HARVEY COLA

It would be a great world, if our differences could be settled without war, divorce or revolution. Unfortunately when our chain of command is not woking, in some cases it must be bypassed. The Halcyon situation was not an overnight coup so to speak.At times the powers that be are reluctant to progress, and so changes must take place. No one is happy about what has happened, but necessary the actions were.

witnessofjesus

Regarding Halycon, my views are constant and clear.

Their new lodge is a clandestine one, and the former brethren there literally 'hi-jacked' the lodge, and have made of themselves clandestine Masons, and I am awaiting a time with patience until such time as the Grand Master of Ohio fixes this mess and reestablishes the original, legitimate Lodge, Halycon No. 498.

I will have no fellowship with their rebellious lot, nor with any who disobey or oppose the ancient landmarks of our Order regarding the Grand Master's ability to dispose of a lodge at will, because they are literally under his dispensation, and have no legal right to exist apart from his 'will and pleasure.'

I do not support any who oppose the institutions of our Grand Lodges.

HARVEY COLA

A regularly passed brother can't be clandestine, What he has earned is his.He may choose to become unaffiliated. There is a disagreement in the Prince Hall camp about what is clandestined, however this term is sorely misunderstood. If we etched in stone reasons why authority can't be questioned or changed, there would be no United States, and what right would we have to go into someone elses country espousing our views. Change Is Necessary.

WyndellF

If this was truly the case these 'brothers' should and could have was to demit and the problem would be solved.

witnessofjesus

So, in your opinion, my Brother, what is a Clandestine Mason from your perspective?

What is a Clandestine lodge? Or a Clandestine Grand Lodge for that matter?

For me, any lodge or Grand lodge NOT recognized by the Grand Lodge of Virginia as being a legitimate Masonic body, authorized to do Masonic ritual is a Clandestine lodge or Grand lodge respectively, and this also applies to renegade lodges who are NO LONGER under the jurisdiction or authority of a recognized Grand Lodge, and hence any Masons who are members of such lodges have two choices 1) Demit and affliate with a regular lodge or 2) Reject Grand Lodge authority and remain with the renegades and if they choose option 2, then they make their choice to become Clandestine Masons.

Plain and simple, that is how I understand and define a clandestine lodge, grand lodge or a Mason for that matter.

Kevin Christians

I must endorse the views of WitnessofJesus, and respectfully disagree with Harvey Cola. Masons take an obligation to abide by the edicts of their respective Grand Lodges. Brother Harvey has presented us no evidence that Halcyon's actions were warranted. Therefore, I will join Brother WitnessofJesus in considering Halcyon a clandestine Lodge.

D. W. Brown

Seems like lodgeroom is invading thats ok I just wish I had more time to spend right now debating this with you all. To WyndellF though, if all the brothers would have demitted then the Grand Lodge would have finished gutting the building and sold it to "someone" who would have profited at our loss. Instead by not demitting and donating the building to charity the building will be put to good use and not stuffing the pockets of "someones" friend with lots of our dollars.

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Dale Brown, 3°
TBL Staff
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Must Reads for Every Mason:

A Peculiar System of Morality | Laudable Pursuit | The Ancient Landmarks
The Truth About the Antients and the Moderns | It's About Time
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Must Visit Links for Masons:

Grand Orient de France | Grand Orient of the United States of America
The Burning Taper | Halcyon Lodge | The Philalethes Society
Regulus Lodge | Sirius Lodge | Emeth Lodge

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Something Every Freemason Should Fight For:

Pickens Plan

George the 3rd

Not an invasion! I heard that this was the "FOX Network" of Masonic Forums, you know, fair and balanced and all!