Grand Lodge proper and the Grand Orient of France

Donald Scott Shearer · 06-29-2008, 12:22 AM

I recently found your forum, I thought it may be a good place to have some of the questions I have answered. My father was a Mason for 33 years and held all the offices at least once, in addition he is a past grand master. This is were most of my curiosity comes from. I'm interested in finding out some of the differences between the Grand Lodge proper and the Grand Orient of France. As it was explained to me that the only difference of substance that is between the two groups, one says all people of good conscience are welcome and actually means it. The other says it admits all people of good character that believe in the supernatural. It is my understanding that the purpose of both groups is to promote human solidarity and help good men become better. I haven't heard one compelling reason for excluding atheists. My friend joined the craft just recently but he has not yet advanced enough to give me a logical and fair explanation. I feel that in the craft, there are many tools that would help me become a better person. If anyone is up for it, I'd love for someone to formulate an answer for me that doesn't violate any of the fallacies that I downloaded from the Grand Lodge of Manitoba website.

D. W. Brown · 06-29-2008, 01:45 AM

Donald,

First, I moved your post here as I felt it was a better fit in the Freemasonry Lounge forum.

I'll just put it as bluntly as I can (imagine that). There are many lodges within the Mainstream Freemasonry ( Antient / MSM) that require a belief in a Supreme Being. There are varying degrees of requirements in religion depending on the lodge and the make up of its members.

The Grand Orient side of Freemasonry does not require that same belief, it is completely separated from religion. It is the more, for lack of a better term, academic flavor of Freemasonry.

Both sides argue that they were first and, to me personally it doesn't matter, more important is how well the West gate is guarded and that there is more to it than just a good ole boys club.

chgregory · 06-29-2008, 10:48 AM

Donald,

The differences as I understand came from almost wholely political issues between England, France and the Catholic Church. This is a good lecture on the "French (and Belgium)" point of view.

http://www.canonbury.ac.uk/lectures/maconnerie.htm

The French consider thenselves enlighten Masons and the Grand Lodges (starting with England and Scotland) think of themselves as traditionalist Masons.

http://www.grandlodgeofvirginia.org/ (I am from VA so I know this site)

The difference is manifest in some strong ways, but the belief in a "Supreme Being" is central to the US Grand Lodges because as in the York and Scotish Rites, an oath given on your holey book binds you on an equal footing with all other Masons. Lacking a professed belief in a "Supreme Architect" your word is sworn on your stature alone, and we have no measurement of that stature. Without a standard upon which you can swear as a man and as a mason your promise is of this world only, and can't stretch from Alpha to Omega. I beleive the French (and enlightened in their view at least) swear an oath in this domain (life if you wish) and that difference is so basic as to prevent acceptance. There are other differences, the GOUSA (and French) mason have a branch of Women's Masons that is precluded by ritual in US Grand Lodges.

Finally, I would share the name of the best Masonic Scholar I know. If you contact him, he may be able to give you a from more eliquent explanation than I.

garymac@ineco.com. That is Worshipful Gary McAlexander who is in my humble opinion one of the best read mason I have ever encountered.

Best,

antoninus9 · 07-01-2008, 07:26 AM

The Grand Orient views Free-Masonry as a secular fraternity of honorable people. Thus, they retain the original spelling "Free-Masonry" to illustrate the Masons are Free in conscience and life.

The Grand Orients are dedicated to the following:

1. Absolute freedom of conscience as it relates to religion.
2. The protection of human rights and liberties.
3. Equality among all people
4. The progress of science and increased human understanding.
5. The protection of the environment (the earth) from abuse.
6. The promotion of democracy (and republic) as the best form of human government.
7. The brother/sisterhood of all humanity.
8. Self development and life-long learning
9. They recognize female Masons as legitimate Free-Masons, but remain a male-only organization

chgregory · 07-01-2008, 07:59 AM

Good MOrning Jeff,

After reading your well informed note I can tell you that in my mind and heart the differences are simply ritual and procedural because I certainly subscribe to all you say and most of my masonic friends do as well. The only point of contention would be in recognizing females as free masons, and that would require a shift in acceptance among some of the brothers. Good luck and I hope your order prospers as there is always room for good work in this world.

S&F

antoninus9 · 07-01-2008, 08:42 AM

Hi Cliff,

The Grand Orient lodges can do the same rituals as the Anglo/American lodges. We have Preston-Webb and English Emulation available but we also have Scottish Rite, Rectified Scottish Rite, York Rite, American Rite, Rite of Memphis, etc. Grand Orient lodges choose their ritual and are Chartered for it. Anglo/American lodges all do pretty much the same Preston-Webb ritual.

The Grand Orient is more "activist" than the Anglo/American system. The discussion of religion and politics is not prohibited in lodge. The Grand Orient has been known to make highly charged political statements. Most recently they called the President of France on the carpet for going to the Vatican. Separation of Church and State is very important to the GO.

The GO is maintained by an Executive Council instead of a single Grand Master. The lodges are more independent. The Grand Orient is more of a confederation of lodges.

The differences are much greater than you might imagine. You could say that the Anglo/American Masons are "Speculative Masons" whereas the Grand Orient Masons are "Operative".

The two systems will appeal to different types of people. When it comes to Freemasonry, one size does not fit all.

Jeff

Scotty · 07-01-2008, 08:16 PM

Thanks so much to everybody that replied, your answers are appreciated. I've had a interest in masonic life for some years. My father was a mason and PGM in Wpg, MB. Being an atheist, I have a bit of a problem with the supreme being part. None the less, I believe in the good works of the Grand Lodge and the concept of making good men better. I would probably be better suited to the GO. My question now would be are there any GOdF or GOUSA affiliated lodges in Vancouver, BC. I haven't found any links from either website. Thanks again

D. W. Brown · 07-01-2008, 10:40 PM

Scotty,

Might I recommend that you visit the GOUSAs web site at:

www.grandorientusa.org

They have a "contact us" page there for you to contact them directly. Many GOUSA Brothers are on here also, so one might PM you. I have the utmost respect for all of the Brothers at the Grand Orient USA, you cannot go wrong there.